A lot of people are complaining about our back to back loss against the Flyers Feb 12th and 13th. In my opinion, people need to tone down their complaining considering that we were missing Andrei Kostitsyn, Cammalleri, Pouliot, Markov and Marc-Andre Bergeron during those games. To calm down the masses I think it's time we put things into perspective.
Montreal this season has scored 164 goals as a team. Of all those goals, 64 of them were scored by the players mentioned above, which accounts for 39% of those 164 goals. In addition, the habs as a team are averaging 2.6 goals per game(gpg). Of those 2.6 gpg, 1.01 goals is scored per game by the combined efforts of the five players.
What this means is that without these players Montreal is averaging only 1.59 gpg. So if the opposing team scored 2 goals in a game(which we did against the flyers), we're pretty much behind the count considering that it's going to(according to averages) pretty hard to score goals.
Now this might be a good enough excuse for the back to back losses against the Flyers, but some might say that this doesn't account for the inconsistent play of the previous 61 games. Well let's examine a bit further.
For the last 5 games we've been playing with a minimum of four players who have played less than 50 games in the nhl. We've been playing with a minimum of six players who've started the year in hamilton and of those six, three of them were on the top two lines.
Also, the Montreal Canadiens have played a grand total of 2 games with a healthy top 6(which includes Andrei Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Cammalleri, Gionta, Gomez and Pouliot). Considering that we play a more conservative style of hockey; any blow to our top 6 will make it hard for us to score goals. Considering that we've loss 25% of all our games by one goal makes all these statistics even more relevant.
Also, don't forget that Andrei Markov has played only 26 of 63 games. Important to note here is that without him in the lineup we are well below .500 in our winning% and well above it with him the lineup. I think it's pretty safe to say that had Markov not been injured for the majority of the year, we would have atleast a couple of more wins, which would have put us in a very comfortable spot in the standings.
If you still think injuries are a lame excuse, well look at other teams that have been plagues by injuries. The Boston Bruins last year finished with the best record in the eastern conference and are currently fighting for a playoff spot. The Detroit Red-Wings who made the Stanley Cup finals last year are also fighting for a playoff spot and have also been plagues by injuries.
I am very confident in saying that we will have an easy time securing a playoff spot if this team is healthy after the break. I think a little patience from the fan base and media will go a long way because it will take some pressure off of guys who clearly can't carry the load(Pyatt, Darche, Sergei, Spacek) and who have enough pressure as it is.
I think the complaining needs to stop and that there should be more fan support for this team that hasn't given up despite all these injuries.
Montreal this season has scored 164 goals as a team. Of all those goals, 64 of them were scored by the players mentioned above, which accounts for 39% of those 164 goals. In addition, the habs as a team are averaging 2.6 goals per game(gpg). Of those 2.6 gpg, 1.01 goals is scored per game by the combined efforts of the five players.
What this means is that without these players Montreal is averaging only 1.59 gpg. So if the opposing team scored 2 goals in a game(which we did against the flyers), we're pretty much behind the count considering that it's going to(according to averages) pretty hard to score goals.
Now this might be a good enough excuse for the back to back losses against the Flyers, but some might say that this doesn't account for the inconsistent play of the previous 61 games. Well let's examine a bit further.
For the last 5 games we've been playing with a minimum of four players who have played less than 50 games in the nhl. We've been playing with a minimum of six players who've started the year in hamilton and of those six, three of them were on the top two lines.
Also, the Montreal Canadiens have played a grand total of 2 games with a healthy top 6(which includes Andrei Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Cammalleri, Gionta, Gomez and Pouliot). Considering that we play a more conservative style of hockey; any blow to our top 6 will make it hard for us to score goals. Considering that we've loss 25% of all our games by one goal makes all these statistics even more relevant.
Also, don't forget that Andrei Markov has played only 26 of 63 games. Important to note here is that without him in the lineup we are well below .500 in our winning% and well above it with him the lineup. I think it's pretty safe to say that had Markov not been injured for the majority of the year, we would have atleast a couple of more wins, which would have put us in a very comfortable spot in the standings.
If you still think injuries are a lame excuse, well look at other teams that have been plagues by injuries. The Boston Bruins last year finished with the best record in the eastern conference and are currently fighting for a playoff spot. The Detroit Red-Wings who made the Stanley Cup finals last year are also fighting for a playoff spot and have also been plagues by injuries.
I am very confident in saying that we will have an easy time securing a playoff spot if this team is healthy after the break. I think a little patience from the fan base and media will go a long way because it will take some pressure off of guys who clearly can't carry the load(Pyatt, Darche, Sergei, Spacek) and who have enough pressure as it is.
I think the complaining needs to stop and that there should be more fan support for this team that hasn't given up despite all these injuries.
As Always feel free to comment!
All this mitigation is really cute, but at the end of the day this team can't compete 5-on-5, regardless of injuries.
ReplyDeleteIt's the same old story. Different names on the back of the jerseys, same pathetically soft lineup. If this team didn't have high-end goalies and good special teams, they'd be in the running for a top-3 draft pick. Nothing has changed. The only thing this roster can contend for is the 8th place in the East. If by some miracle we make the playoffs, it'll be 4-5 more games of having our goalies bail us out until we can get our PP out there.
If that's satisfactory for you, fine. Some of us have standards and perspective, making it very clear that the current direction the team is heading in is completely unacceptable.
I appreciate your comment, but please tell(and I'm sorry if this sounds like it's attacking because it's not it's a general question) How are you supposed to evaluate your(rhetorical) team, if you have not yet played multiple games with a healthy lineup?
ReplyDeleteFor all we know, when healthy we could push ourselves passed the middle of the pack, until fully healthy I do not see how we can draw conclusions.
Thank you again for your opinion.
Also, another thing to consider, our best 5 on 5 scorer is Andrei Kostitsyn and he has missed 23 games. Andrei is also really effective at using his size which is why his line was having success because he was opening up space for Cammalleri.
ReplyDeletePouliot is also an efficient even-strength goal scorer and uses his size well.
Cammaller if I recall has about 75% of his goals at even-strength.
It may not explain everything, but it does explain quite a bit.
I completely agree with "anonymous." The habs are not that good a team 5 on 5 even with a full lineup. Sure their PP is one of the best in the league (and has been for several years), but they lack efficiency and strength in so many categories (SH, 5 on 5, depth, 3rd/4th liners). I may be mistaken, but the habs are either THE worst team 5 on 5 in the league or very close to being. The sad fact is that special teams, mainly the PP, win games most of the time.
ReplyDeleteTake Boston for example, earlier this season we were struggling (and continued to in January)not only because of injuries but our pathetic PP. Back to Montreal. Their 3rd & 4th lines aren't very good. In fact they are terrible. Look at the successful teams apart from Pittsburgh; they have at least 3 solid lines that can contribute on the scoresheet. The Habs depend too much on the same players (Camms, Plex & Markov). Washington is in a league of their own, but again they have 3 solid scoring lines.
Oh, and another problem that Gainey failed to address was size. NO size at center or on the wing for the Habs. Maybe Moen, but come on.
Because only a moron can look at our roster and think of it as anything more than an 8th place/first round exit lineup.
ReplyDeleteIt's a fact that this team is too soft to contend in the playoffs.
It's also a fact that we rely on special teams and goaltending to get us points in the standings.
Our roster is too physically weak (part of the reason why they go down like flies) to play a full 82+ game schedule and history reflects that. For years we've been the weaklings of the league, with several opponents being quoted as saying we're ridiculously easy to play against. The two games against the Flyers being a prime example of that.
At the end of the day, the core of this team is nothing impressive and nothing to be optimistic about. Couple that fact with having a career playoff loser head coach and you'll see this team won't win a playoff round for the next couple of years. That is, if they even make them.
You can thank the failure that is Bob Gainey for putting us in this situation that unfortunately won't be changing anytime soon due to a series of terrible contracts and piss poor asset management.
The thing is, Jacques Martin doesn't really favor enforcers/goons. There are also a lack of character guys on the team. I do not think Gainey is a terrible GM, but he did play the round set of cards because he was pressured to do something "big" this offseason thanks to the media here. Gomez was a terrible acquisition. BUT, if Gainey doesn't get Gomez does he get the chance to sign Gionta and Cammalleri? I really do not think so. Gionta signed with the habs to reunite with Gomez, Camms came because of a) money and b) saw that the habs were serious about making a push for the playoffs (acquiring Gomez was a piece to that puzzle).
ReplyDeleteThe one solid move Gainey did this offseason was getting Paul Mara and Travis Moen simply because of the 'character' they bring to the team. They both stick up for their teamates no matter what. I have not seen much of Paul Mara in Montreal, but in his short stint in Boston he dropped the gloves with anyone who hit the star players or yapped they mouth.
Back to the topic. Injuries are common, but it also depends who gets hurt and how valuable the player is to the team. I think Edmonton leads the list, but lets face it .... the oilers are crap with or without those players. Habs should get Brasher LOL
In response to to the guys who said the flyers game proved we were soft...all the flyers game proved was that we were extremely injured.
ReplyDeleteWe managed to beat a red hot Capitals team despite being decimated by injuries. We also beat the Pens who are not to bad themselves.
From the logic in your post, we can assume that the Flyers will win the cup because they push people around right?
There is this huge misconception in this league that gooning it up along with size = cup.
Tell me, how tough were Red Wings when they won the cup two years ago? They were pretty much a skill team. The only guys on their back end that hit was Kronwall.
Toughness while needed is overrated. Plus you guys act as though getting bottom 6 players takes rocket science. Montreal's top 6 is fine and I'm pretty sure the goal at trade deadline is to solidy the bottom 6, which like I said, doesn't take Stephen Hawking to do.
Just another case of people overreacting and trying to place blame everywhere.
Oh and I forgot to add, where is toronto with all their toughness on the back end and their bottom 6? Oh right, last in the eastern conference.
ReplyDeleteWell it's because of fans like you and the media who apparently have "standards and perspective" that makes the load of pressure more difficult to deal with for the players Andy had mentioned above. These injuries that Montreal has been suffering all year should be a part of your "perspective" to try to support our team with what we've got and play out the rest of the season.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that the team has suffered all of these injuries and yet be able to be within the top 8 should be beyond the high standards that the media and the fans expect. In essence,the "standards and perspective" are not only unrealistic, but also blind you from the reality of a team who is struggling constantly to be at full health; which makes you look ignorant and stubborn.
If you don't agree, you might as well join L'Antichambre and pretend like you know what you're talking about.
Toronto has just as much problems as Montreal - Toronto has suffered from many things one being goaltending. Toronto drop the gloves but they don't have the fire power to have a solid PP or 5 on 5 offensive threat. Detroit are way to talented and have guys that have been there together many years playing the same system. Tough players (the smart ones) know how to get the fans and team pumped when they need to be. Motivation is the key word. Montreal took a gamble with Laraque (payed way too much for him) and used him poorly. Then again, Laraque didn't hit anyone and failed to push other players to drop the gloves.
ReplyDeleteWell the interesting thing about Toronto is that they score a lot of goals and still find ways to lose. They picked up Giggy, but are still finding ways to lose.
ReplyDeleteThe problem in Toronto is that they have Big guys with no skill, and skilled guys who aren't big and the reality is, Big and Skilled guys are not in abundance in the nhl and the teams that do have them don't want to get rid of them.
People think it's easy to trade in the nhl, but it isn't and even if teams do begin trade discussions, it usually takes time for trades to actually go through. There is this idea in Montreal that we are living in a vaccuum, but it's not the case. If Montreal one day calls the Flyers to trade for Scott Hartnell, the trade does not happen immidiately. The Flyers Gm listens to offers and then turns to other teams to see if they're willing to offer more. Sometimes GMs are not interested in trading their players, but people think the opposite, that when the Montreal gm calls you, it means you need to trade and trade for wtv we are offering you.
Like someone said, bottom 6 players are not hard to acquire and Montreal's top 6 is quite solid when healthy. At the deadline there will be a lot of 3th-4th line players available that won't cost much. Just off the top of my head... Torres, Moreau, Combreen, Pisani etc.
Don't sign Metro! I want him to come back to Boston!! I don't mind Begin, but I prefer Metro. As for Torres, he will be a free agent at the end of the year. I do know that Boston has been interested in him for several years, but I doubt they get him. I do want Peter Mueller - good potential, but in the wrong organization.
ReplyDeleteI bet hab fans are screaming for a guy like Lucic. You know, the habs could have very well drafted him, but they decided to pass on him :P Same with Patrice Bergeron.
You know what's sad. Peter Mueller is quite religious and is thinking of quitting hockey to pursue his religious following. Too bad he's a great player and could be a guy who's just playing in the wrong system/team ala Latendresse-Pouliot
ReplyDeleteApologists rejoice. Keep jerking it to a team that gladly takes your money and ices a roster with a point percentage ranked in line with the Blue Jackets, Thrashers, and Lightning amongst other weak franchises.
ReplyDeleteIf you're fine with it, rock and roll. But with that being said, it's fair to say you all lead very average lives to be content with such mediocrity.
And Andy, you're an idiot for bringing up names like Torres, Moreau, and Pisani. Torres makes over 2 million, is a upcoming UFA, and will be acquired by a team that belongs in the playoffs and will bring a solid return. Moreau can't even keep up on a pathetic Oilers team, and the same can be said of Pisani. This all goes to show just how out of touch you are with todays NHL. You're the one living in the Montreal Apologists vacuum. If a scrub like Dominic Moore netted a second rounder, what will Torres bring in considering he brings twice as much to the ice?
Are you sure you aren't Bob Gainey in disguise?... Suggesting Moreau with his $2 Million salary through 2011? Fool.
Get a clue, son.
Are you serious about that, Andy? Wow. Perhaps that is why his performance has declined heavily the last two seasons.
ReplyDeleteDamn this blog is active LOL. Good stuff *thumbsbup*
First, where did I suggest the habs should go get these guys? I just showed you the kind of bottom 6 players that will be available come tradedeadline.
ReplyDeleteLike someone mentioned, we've been hovering around 6-8th with injuried the entire year, but yet that is not good enough.
Yes Moore netteed a second rounder in 2011, but mind you, all analysts have noted that 2011 will be a weak draft year. You're going to see a lot of 2011 picks fly around in this years trade deadline as well as at the draft.
Like I said, people are complaining for no reason and you're one of them.
Plus you never answered by question...How can you evaluate a team which has yet to have played more than 2 games as a full line up? Appearntly you have some crystal ball that has shown you the quality of our team with a full lineup even though the rest of us havent seen much of it yet.
Look at the bright side, atleast the Habs will be keeping in shape by golfing early. LOL
ReplyDeleteThe Habs also haven't been developing their young players that well. As for Moore, he'll most likely be replacing Metro who will be leaving (it looks like it).
6th to 8th? I suggest you take a look at the standings and take into account a little thing called games in hand. Hence why point percentage is most reflective of the teams true position at this point in time. Judging from the drivel you've put up so far, that type of logic may very well escape you.
ReplyDeleteIt's because of pathetic fans like you that this team will never be able to rebuild itself properly. You conjure up excuse after excuse, blindly supporting the team when all facts point to this roster going nowhere. This year it was injuries, last year it was the fans and the media, the year before the Flyers beat us because of "luck". What will you pathetic apologists blame next years debacle on? I'm sure you guys are hard at work in your parents basement figuring that one out.
The proof is in the pudding, boy. This roster is garbage and we're stuck with a fair amount of it for years to come. Our biggest issue right now isn't making the playoffs, because that's completely futile. A better thing to bring up would be how our best center is still unsigned and how we have $46 million dollars committed to only a dozen or so players for next year.
But no, that would be way too based in reality for you to wrap your pea brain around it. Do you still sleep with a night-light on to avoid the doom and gloom?
Ouch.
ReplyDeleteAndy, you're getting owned.
Yup claudio he will be replacing Metro, he's a little bigger than metro and is better on faceoff. Moore is a good 3rd line centerman, he has good defensive awareness and is pretty good on the forecheck. He doesn't use his size on the forecheck, but uses speed well to retrieve the puck.
ReplyDeletePlayer development has been a problem, but I wonder how much that has to do with the organization and coaches. It seems as though when young players get traded, they break out right away. I don't if that's the coaches holding them back or that they are just afraid to make a mistake is fear of being criticized by fans and media.
Just look at Carey Price, his development is on pace with other goalies his age, yet people are calling for his head. Then when we trade him and he does well we'll say it's player development, but maybe it's because we trade them too early because of media pressure etc.
Montreal is a very unique place to play and it has a lot of baggage other places don't have.
I've played sports and unwanted/unwarrented pressure really affects your game no matter how tough you are mentally.
Nice work andy! Im afraid though once everyone comes back and we play more then a two games together we are still going to see some of the same results. We are going to be much more talented obviously, but i dont see anyone injuired who once they return will change the fact that we seem to be to easy to play against.
ReplyDeleteSure we will get our goal scorers back but none bring that aspect the habs lack. And maybe our skill and goalies will squeak us into the playoffs but we wouldnt last long.
I personally like our ''healthy'' top 6, yes undersized a bit but with two good lines we should be fine offensively. I just find our bottom six doesn't do the job a bottom six should do, make it difficult for the opposition, chip in for a bit of offensive and bring energy.
I think this has a bit to do with Martin's system. Its like a passive trap that doesn't suit the players we have. Its making them easy to play against and shows our areas of weakness.
Because of people like me, it seems as though the apologists in this town are a pretty small minority compared to complainers such as yourself. In fact we hear you guys all time, from the mindless rants on radio, the constant booing at the bellcenter be it because someone is not shooting on the power play or because our captain doesn't speak french or the fans that booing every little thing they don't like(like Andrei at the begining of the year, then he wakes up and everyone loves him again). Or like Halak, for three years everyone wants to trade him, he has two good months and now is the second coming of Christ.
ReplyDeleteYah I forgot how many apologists there actual is and I also forgot how much influence we have on the organization. Everywhere you go, there is negativity. There was even negativity the year we finished first because Ryder we didn't anything for Ryder and we traded Huet(who loss in the first round that very year).
I also forgot that it's the managment that decides when the player is to sign and not the other way around. Shame for the habs on not agreeing on a contract.
The fact that you're resorting to personal attacks is hilarious. What's even funnier is how each post has a different complaint.
First it was because we sucked at 5 on 5, worse in the league. Then it was because our bottom 6 sucked. Then it's because of salary cap, then it's because of habs apologists, yet were still sitting in a playoff position(yes teams have games in hand, but games in hand does not mean necessary wins, all it means is that our spot is not stable) with many injuries to key players.
And again, you fail to answer the question which will be asked a third time. How do you evaluate a team that has not been anywhere close to healthy for more than 2 games?
Yes Daniel I agree with you about Martin's system, we don't have the players to play the system he's promoting. We are built to play a speed game, but Martin's game kills whatever momentum you gain off speed.
ReplyDeleteI don't think we are the greatest team(that's obvious) and I never ever suggested that we were, but we're not as bad as we are made out to be.
Again injuries have been a factor, look at the red-wings, there team hasn't changed much from last year, they have great coaching, but are sitting in the middle of the pack because they lost key players for long periods of team.
We're a brand new team, we have what four players that have been our team for more than the last four years? And we've been injured since the first game of the season.
People can criticize all they want, but you cannot assess a team when you have not seen the final product. That's like trying to test the quality of a guitar but it's missing it's strings and volume knobs, any assessment is an incomplete one.
The answer to your question is obvious to anybody who has been following the league for any length of time. Clearly, you aren't in that boat. Injuries are part of the game, and when you have a physically weak roster, the likelihood of them getting hurt or being unable to compete through injury is increased.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I bet you're the type who thinks having 13+ million tied up for the next half decade to second liners like Gomez and Gionta is great. Haha, shows what you know. You're clearly not worth any more of my time. Your parents should of figured the same and aborted you back when they had the chance.
And for the record, the personal attacks are just there for my personal amusement. I'm in no way using them to illustrate how poor your hockey knowledge is; you're doing a fantastic job of that on your own just by still typing.
Know your place, son.
Haha, you're funny. I'm guessing you come from hfboards and are loving that you are a. anonymous and b. that you can finally swear. What's even funnier is how highly you think of yourself.
ReplyDeleteBut your opinion is welcomed and it makes for great discussion. Thanks for it.
Yes injuries are apart of the game and that is precisly why it affects performance. When one player get's hurt, others have to pick up the slack, they're working harder and are more likely to get hurt as well.
Plus, you're blaming injuries because of lack of size, but injuries don't always result because of how physical your team is. Was Markov's injury because he was too small? He was cut by Carey Price's skate, it had nothing to do with size and grit.
Just because you're big does not make you immune to injury.
Also, the way you speak of how teams should be organized, you would assume that the Flyers should be the best team in the league. They have multiple skill players with grit, they have a solid bottom six that works hard and dishes out big hits. They have a physical D. You could argue that they have no goalie, but goaltending is only 1 of the many problems of that team.
ReplyDeleteYou make it seem like running a hockey team is like a science, that if you get elements a,b,c and d you will get result e, but the fact is that you nor any other person can predict what is going to happen. A lot of what happens around the league is luck. Look at Carolina the year they won the cup, who would have guessed that every team they played that year would have had key players injured in the playoffs, which made the canes road to the cup that much easier.
Hockey is a game with so many factors out of your control, but everyone makes it seem as though they can control. Injuries are on of those factors and they do affect a teams performance and that is why a lot of the teams that have been plagued by injuries this year have a hard time keeping a stable record and place in the standings.
Wow i think it's pretty obvious who the bigger person is here on this board. It must be so comfortable for you to hide behind the name of "Anonymous" and to say things here you would not otherwise say in person....while you may think you are so increadible it really just comes off as cowardly to the rest of us...pathetic.
ReplyDeleteThank you James, it sucks, because the reason I allow people to post in the comment section anonymously is so they don't have to create a google account to reply, but it seems like people get really excited when no one knows who they are and that they don't have to be held accountable.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to resort to removing the anonymous option.
LOL, "anonymous" is just going all over the place.
ReplyDeleteOne of many points that Andy points out correctly is the sudden change of heart over players. When a player is scoring, he is a God in the eyes of most Hab fans. When that player goes on a slump, well he's now complete garbage. Look at Michael Ryder. He potted 30 goals several times in a Hab jersey; has one bad year under a terrible coach (Carboneau) and all of a sudden he's full of shit, useless, etc. Yet, these same hab fans don't take the time to ponder that perhaps Ryder is struggling because of what his younger brother Daniel is going through. What the hab fans did to Koivu was disrespectful. It's not only the fans but the politicians who put their nose in the game because there is a lack of "french."
Exactly Claudio. Like I said earlier, Montreal is a very special place to play in a sense that there is soo much bagage that a player wouldn't normally have to face.
ReplyDeleteWhen you listen to player interviews after they have left Montreal is really makes you think about how much of an impact outside pressures can have on a players performance.
Look at Teemu Selanne, he said in an interview this summer that he never once thought of playing in Montreal because he didn't want to always be under pressure and scrutiny from the media and fans. It's a shame really.
Now I'm not saying that 100% of the blame should be placed on external factors because a lot does come from the player, gm, coaches etc, but people do need to understand that the media presence does play some kind of role.
All external factors play a role in player performance, as you mentioned look at Michael Ryder and his brother, I'm sure the last thing on his mind is hockey.
Look at Peter Mueller who is questioning whether his true calling is actual hockey or religion.
This is why I think Gainey was a good gm for Montreal because he understood this best.
Quick question for hab fans: How do you feel that Andrei Markov missed the last two Hab games due to "injury," but played over 20 minutes in Russia's first game?
ReplyDelete